tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9131289420618991795.post5295802999848956361..comments2023-06-17T08:53:42.643-04:00Comments on ShysterBall: Investigating MannyCraig Calcaterrahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00190345915954808542noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9131289420618991795.post-62162063071225033592008-08-08T13:58:00.000-04:002008-08-08T13:58:00.000-04:00those are both fair points. perhaps when you say b...those are both fair points. perhaps when you say boston i think of the fans and youre speaking of the media. <BR/><BR/>gammons clearly took it personally. i thought some of his blog entries were pretty ferocious in attacking manny. i too, got a giggle out of the francona health line he dropped on BBTN. <BR/><BR/>i wont comment on olney b/c i think he stinks.<BR/><BR/>but perhaps gammons was so close to the situation that there is more there then meets the eye and has reason to be particularly peeved?EricInBostonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00403644983701429316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9131289420618991795.post-81909411754268114232008-08-08T11:56:00.000-04:002008-08-08T11:56:00.000-04:00I understand where you're coming from. I guess I h...I understand where you're coming from. I guess I have two main objections to the coverage of this whole situation: <BR/><BR/>1. The same people who glorified the whole "Manny being Manny" thing are trashing him for something that fits into that same pattern of behavior. It's like someone owning a rottweiler, laughing at its playful nipping, then having it put down when it bites them.<BR/><BR/>2. The tone of the coverage by guys like Peter Gammons and Buster Olney. For Gammons' part, the talk about how Manny's alleged lack of effort should be considered worse than players taking steroids, the exaggeration of the hit the Red Sox took in swapping Manny for Bay (I would actually argue that they won), the suggestion that Terry Francona's <I>physical health</I> was in jeopardy, the revisionist "he was a ball and chain all along" stuff, etc. On Olney's, the gratuitous "Well he's not getting $100 million now!" blog entry. IMO, the coverage of this Manny situation is really a perfect example of journalists being too close to their subjects to be objective.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122650171636289605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9131289420618991795.post-86417644285118145872008-08-08T11:41:00.000-04:002008-08-08T11:41:00.000-04:00daniel is touching on the whole point of the fans ...daniel is touching on the whole point of the fans beef. <BR/><BR/>add that to his abscences against joba and the king and the idea begins to spawn... will he go into hibernation like he did in '06 if he's not happy?EricInBostonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00403644983701429316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9131289420618991795.post-59446195069554915852008-08-08T11:38:00.000-04:002008-08-08T11:38:00.000-04:00I'm going to play devil's advocate here (/heads to...I'm going to play devil's advocate here (/heads to arcade to play the video game), but isn't there more to this loafing thing than just his batting line? I totally agree that this investigation is a waste of time, but bear with me here.<BR/><BR/>There's an important distinction between "loafing" and "tanking." Manny was obviously NOT tanking since he was still hitting well after the break. But he was almost certainly loafing as is evidenced by his ridiculously slow time running to first base. Isn't that evidence? Can't you show video of him meandering down to first base? It won't be enough to get the investigation to go anywhere, but I think it would at least count more than a .351 batting line, considering it takes much less "effort" (at least for Manny) to stand in the box, hit a line drive and then jog down to first.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16264246154526243474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9131289420618991795.post-25488484128424777422008-08-08T10:34:00.000-04:002008-08-08T10:34:00.000-04:00peter - i have to object a little bit to your stat...peter - i have to object a little bit to your statement that boston "turned their back" on manny. the whole scenario is very convoluted so to play a big game of cause and effect and fingerpointing would be a waste of time. <BR/><BR/>but in a nutshell this was a long time coming. boston had simply grown weary of the manny saga and it was a genuine surprise when months would go by w/o some sort of drama. <BR/><BR/>after the jack mccormick incident the majority of fans had pretty much had enough. it was also the comments afterward where he ripped the red sox saying "they dont deserve me" etc..<BR/><BR/>so in defense of red sox fans (b/c i am one), i will say we didnt turn our back on him. we felt he turned his back on us and we had had enough nonsense. the focus now becomes embracing jason bay and trying to win another world series with a team that really seems united after all of it. <BR/><BR/>you have to take into strong consideration that fact that alex cora and ortiz, manny's two biggest allies in the clubhouse, agreed that it was time for him to go.EricInBostonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00403644983701429316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9131289420618991795.post-43209928564450808642008-08-08T10:14:00.000-04:002008-08-08T10:14:00.000-04:00The only thing missing is Jim Caple blaming it on ...The only thing missing is Jim Caple blaming it on the Yanks.Jason @ IIATMShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11675184282951841175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9131289420618991795.post-40908932624640471632008-08-08T09:47:00.000-04:002008-08-08T09:47:00.000-04:00Does anyone think we'd still be talking about this...Does anyone think we'd still be talking about this if it were Jose Guillen doing the supposed "tanking" to the tune of a 1.089 post-All Star break OPS?<BR/><BR/>Everyone knows this investigation is going nowhere, so with that in mind, we have to ask ourselves why it's (supposedly) happening.<BR/><BR/>The most interesting aspect of this whole affair is how quickly Boston turned on Manny, and how willing guys like Gammons, Olney (less of a surprise), and Shaughnessy (no surprise at all really) are to manipulate the story to suit the team's needs.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122650171636289605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9131289420618991795.post-78443123099215708672008-08-08T09:15:00.000-04:002008-08-08T09:15:00.000-04:00What bugs me about all this speculation, are the o...What bugs me about all this speculation, are the outright accusations by Buster Olney, Boston sports radio personalities and a few others I can't remember, using Manny's hot start in LA as proof that he dogged it. By this logic, any time a great hitter is not OPSing (is that a word) 1.300+ over his last 15-20 at bats, he must not be playing his best. Use his lollygag down the baseline on Lackey's no-hit bid if you want, but this shit is the worst sort of cherry picking you see in sports media.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03520766747075958132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9131289420618991795.post-76684120506755310832008-08-08T08:45:00.000-04:002008-08-08T08:45:00.000-04:00Great post, I thought the same thing about perceiv...Great post, I thought the same thing about perceived vs. measured effort.tadthebadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850610376839190688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9131289420618991795.post-89180526023810810992008-08-08T08:18:00.000-04:002008-08-08T08:18:00.000-04:00do we have any idea who was driving the bus behind...do we have any idea who was driving the bus behind starting an investigation?<BR/><BR/>was it the red sox behind closed doors feeling slighted? was it MLB?<BR/><BR/>and what, if anything, can possibly come out of this?<BR/><BR/>it seems like alot of huffing and puffing for no reason.EricInBostonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00403644983701429316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9131289420618991795.post-80118966948327635852008-08-08T08:17:00.000-04:002008-08-08T08:17:00.000-04:00I missed that line, Jay. I agree, it would have b...I missed that line, Jay. I agree, it would have been really stupid for Boras to have said something like that. If you're Theo, don't you respond "You know, Scott, if we don't trade him, Manny is contractually obligated to stay and play hard. Are you suggesting otherwise?"<BR/><BR/>Who knows what Scott Boras thinks, but even if he's trying to subtly communicate something otherwise, wouldn't you say something along the lines of "Manny will stop being a distraction," in reference to interviews or statements or something?Craig Calcaterrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00190345915954808542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9131289420618991795.post-63827229142644267422008-08-08T07:59:00.000-04:002008-08-08T07:59:00.000-04:00In the article it says... "After the trade, the Gl...In the article it says... "After the trade, the Globe reported that Boras called the Sox and said Manny would stay and play hard for the rest of this year if the club merely dropped the options."<BR/><BR/>Craig, could he do that openly? Everyone loves a good Boras conspiracy theory, but doesn't he have too much to lose to try and pull that off? Seems like a risky play for only one client.<BR/><BR/>I wish the league could punish Manny for bagging out against hard throwing righties and not busting it down the line, but there's just no way to prove that kind of stuff.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04839022142066882411noreply@blogger.com